YES! GR'XL' got the Squire going!

[K.R.Joye]

Tested a new version of the GR 'XL' today. Got my setup up and on plane ran pretty decent. Got an approx 25 MPH for 4 MINUTES! (baby steps) Played it conservative, motor an brushes(cooled) look great. Runs a little wet at the rear lot of drag in the turns with the wedge rudder. Plan on shifting the cells forward and putting a little pos angle on the strut(was at neutral). Also will try a blade rudder next and (24) 2600 with all the runtime im getting why not.

[Paul]

Hey Ken,

Is that your "can of whoopass"? If it is all you need to do is get about 25 more MPH and your set, you lucky dog. lol:D

Paul.

[eddieh]

Paul don't worry it's coming.....:D
well a little ways off anyway... I think when he switches to the 2600's he is taking off almost 1.5 pounds.... lighter boat can run a bigger prop, bigger prop more whoopin......:p

[eddieh]

Hey guys buy the way was looking around for a battery matcher other then a comp elec turbo matcher (looking for a used one if anybody knows where there is one reasonable) anyway saw this blip about the new 3300's just thought I would throw it up for info
http://www.kmrbatteries.com/

[K.R.Joye]

Originally posted by Paul
Hey Ken,
Is that your "can of whoopass"? If it is all you need to do is get about 25 more MPH and your set, you lucky dog. lol:D
Paul.

HELLO PAUL, your such an ARS! For now on i won't report any R&D on my 1/8th if i'm just going to get ripped on. It would be nice to see some support instead of negativity on this board. I may not have the funds some people do, so i do my R&D wisely in a step up type progression. Less equipment loss going this route. I'm confident i found the motor just have start tuning the setup.

KEN

[eddieh]

Originally posted by K.R.Joye
For now on i won't report any R&D on my 1/8th if i'm just going to get ripped on. It would be nice to see some support instead of negativity on this board. I'm confident i found the motor just have start tuning the setup.


Ken I really think Paul was just funiing you, but I for one am very interested in your findings as I am trying to do this on a budget as well, I really think that the 2600's (are these sub c's will make a big difference as the boat should run a little less wet, keep at it ken , the last laugh and all that!!!

[Paul]

Hey Ken,

I'm just bustin on you a bit buddy.:D Look at it like the piston boats against the turbines, we all know what happened there this year;) Keep it up, I like seeing what your up to!

TTYL, Paul.

[K.R.Joye]

Good point Paul about the turbines getting whomped by the piston boat. Hope i get that kind of break next season.

Fine, latest update, ran it today on (24) 2600's big improvement in speed, the weight loss loosened the hull up quite a bit. Still got plenty of run time est 13-14 laps. Motor came in fine. Tried a new blade rudder and think worked better than the big wedge.It also liked a little angle on strut. Next run ill move the cells forward in hope to free up the tail more in the turns. Having second thoughts on the the heavy hitec MG 645 servo i'm using, maybe overkill. Also thinking of going to a 3 blade.

[Paul]

Hello Ken,

Having second thoughts on the the heavy hitec MG 645 servo i'm using, maybe overkill

I think that's the right servo for the boat. Keep in mind all the weight that's getting tossed into the corners on that big rudder. In a boat this size thats one place you shouldn't worry about the extra weight, consider it a "safety" factor.

Also thinking of going to a 3 blade.

Take it from experiance, if the boat isn't hopping in the straights or draging tail in the corners stick with the 2 blade props. Their worth 2/3 MPH over the 3 blade props and with limited RPM they just work better.

Paul.

[rbeyer]

Ken:

Great news on the Squire. I, for one, am eagerly awaiting your results.

I think maybe we should make some Brushless Buster pins! (For those who don't remember, Tom D'Eath drove a Squire Shop hull in the mid 80's and his team had Turbine Buster t-shirts and buttons).

Good luck,
Rick

[Dan Chase]

To give Ken his thread back, I moved the T-Shirt posts to it's own thread. Cool, and I didn't even crash the board doing it! ;)

Sorry to hijack your thread, Ken! I'm looking forward to more post's as development continues! :)

[K.R.Joye]

Found out the CG placement makes a HUGE difference on this big boys! Moved the 2600's way up so they put the CG about a 1/2-1" aft of the sponson trailing edge, made a big difference. I'm still getting incredible run time with this version of the GR`XL' over 4 mins, speeds are well into the mid 30's. Best prop so far has been a ABC 47/60. Going to try adding a couple more cells (26) this week now that i know i 'm close on the setup. Bump up the RPM/Speed.

The GR`XL' brushes are almost square on the this motor help handle current/voltage no problem. The motor also has a lot in common envelope wise with the SS1 like same mounting holes, same motor and 5mm shaft dia and similiar magnet composition for heat resistance. But this baby can handle the cells and put out the power. Can't wait to try the GR`XL' in a big Vee hull!:D

[Jeff Shriver]

Hi Ken,

Does the GR 'XL' have a 5mm or 6mm shaft? I believe the GRX has a 6mm shaft.

[K.R.Joye]

JEFF

The 800 GR`XL'(24-26 cell) has a 5mm shaft, (yes its gearable) The 800 GRX (18-20 cell)has a 6mm. I just race and sell em, no input on the design.:D

[Randy Naylor]

Ken it is good to see progress with your idea. Keep us informed and good luck.

[Ladamercy]

Hi Ken,

this sound very good!
Do you have any pictures of your boat?

Is there a site where i can find any specs of th 800GR including detailed pics?

Best regards,
matt

[K.R.Joye]

MATT pic are on post
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9909&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

The new`MACH 5 racing' 800GR`XL' for 24-26 cell applications isn't listed on my webstore yet but its available. Its similiar in construction the the 18-20 cell 800GRX that is listed on my site with the exception of 1 1/8" mounting spacing and 5mm shaft just like a 700, also comes with brush cooling installed.Over the holidays i'm hoping to get the XL and motor accesories i offer for both GRX and XL versions on the site. For info on`MACH 5 racing' motors and hardware click on my signature link.

Thanks, Ken Joye
MACH 5 racing

[Andrewg]

Ken how is the heat ?

[K.R.Joye]

ANDREW heat hasn't been an issue with the 800GRX motors if they are setup correctly. The 800GRX dosen't require any cooling. I didn't watercool the 800GR`XL'until i stepped up to 26 cells, added brush cooling, still may be overkill. I do all my preliminary testing without watercooling to highlight problems they may occur early in the game. The 800GRX and 800GR`XL' motors are high quality, well built, tough motors that can handle the rigors of enduro racing.

[Andrewg]

Can you get a 32 cell version? There are some real benefits from going justa bit further in the cell count.

[K.R.Joye]

ANDREW I really think the market demand for a 32 cell Brushed motor is slim to nil right now. Were still growing the 18-24 cell segment. Of course i'm always investigating the latest and greatest power tool based motors.

Ken

[AndyKunz]

I think you're wrong. I have sold more higher-voltage controls this year than anything else, and the demand for the Emperor is amazing.

Sportsmen have had their fill of nuking brushless setups.

Andy

[K.R.Joye]

Sorry ANDY didn't mean to step on your toes. I'll agree that the market is growing in respects to higher cell count setups but from what i've seen it been in the 18 to 24 cell area. MMEU's Unlimited Offshore,MMM's XLSH other higher cell count classes have had a lot to do with that growth.R/C Hydro's new Emperor ESC is just what hobby needs to take it to the next level. In the mean time `MACH 5 racing' will do its best to compliment R/C Hydros with some great economical motors.

[LOU]

Hi Andy, When will the Emperor be available?

Thanks

[eddieh]

Originally posted by K.R.Joye


I'll agree that the market is growing in respects to higher cell count setups but from what i've seen it been in the 18 to 24 cell area. MMEU's Unlimited Offshore,MMM's XLSH other higher cell count classes have had a lot to do with that growth.R/C Hydro's new Emperor ESC is just what hobby needs to take it to the next level. In the mean time `MACH 5 racing' will do its best to compliment R/C Hydros with some great economical motors.



OK just my thoughts on the whole 1/8th thing Michigan race aside, I am really interested on how your boat runs ken, because besides michigan, as was said before the mainstream hobbiest won't buy into a 1500 dollar set-up , if your motor pans out at even 75% of the speed which It already has, I can see the big 1/8 "limited" class exploding from the guys who are running lsh now, will be running xlsh next year, and will be ready to move up as soon as a viable and "reasonable" combo is found, just like it was with lsh. I actually think andrews questions in the plett thread were geared toward that goal, perhaps a 32 cell motor will power the 1/8th just a little quicker and bring a few more folk. they will have most of what they need already, I personally think it will be the scale that will bring more to this then the speed, yes there will be the guys who only want to go as fast as they can. But as was said they will have other class use for this equipment so it makes sense for them, as for me I want to run my boat, and run it often, and I would like to have a shovel too, I do not wish to swap out motors each time so if I wanted to run the brushless set-up I would need to at least buy extra motors,
yes the speed will be phenomenal as well as the cost.. Just want to let you both know there is at least one guy rooting for an absolute success with both of your projects, because I honestly believe this will be the biggest class if not the fastest...
good luck gents..
:)

[Andrewg]

the reason for the up to 32 cells spec is simple

it relates to power to weight ie acceleration and keeping this class meaningful - LSH is comparable to 1/6th surely for allthe extra money the 1/8 should at least be comparable to LSH?

ok a 1/12 has power to weight of 330w/kg; a LSH 222w/kg; a tool motored 1/8 (using your boat as the example) running 26 x 3300 cells has 180w/kg.

What does this mean - using F=MA, then the limited 1/8th cant accelerate as fast as the 1/12 or LSH.

The 26 cell limitied 1/8 looks like it will be dog slow on an electric oval

The Ltd 1/8 has a 5 minute runtime at 43mph peak speed and at an average 75% (very good) of that on the oval it would run 20 laps and then the cells will be dead

In a drag race down the same length schute an LSH will be about 25% faster at the end of it. This may improve on the whole val but the limited 1/8 doesnt have appear to have the top speed 42mph on 26 cells to over come the LSH's advantage in acceleration.

One way to get the average speed up is to go to a nitro oval - here the ltd 1/8 shoudl be able to stretch out closer to its high speed all the way around - the LSH can run at its top speed of say 37 mph but at best it will proabbly only match the ltd 1/8.

Additionally on a nitro oval the Ltd 1/8 will appear to run slower than on electric oval because of the size of the oval. It wont tempt many here either.

On a nitro oval a 32 cell boat (motor cost of $50 means an increase of maybe $50 in total costs if controller $25 extra, cells $26 extra)

With currrent draw increased to 50A on 32 cells the limited 1/8 has a 4 minute runtime. Power to weight improves to 257w/kg or 15% better than the LSH. Now it can accelrate faster and run at near 50 - but it will need the nitro oval to allow it to get to that speed.

Runtiem at the higher amp draw is 4 minutes but that represents 8 laps of a nitro oval.

My hunch is the cost performance ratio of a 50 mph setup is going to make it tempting to the nitro guys who already have a charger. What is the larger market?

What is needed is some testing of 24 cell setup against a good LSH to see whether the ltd 1/8 is able to accelerate as fast and how it goes around an oval.

[K.R.Joye]

EDDIE thanks for the vote of confidence, after all THIS THREAD WAS STARTED TO SHOWCASE THE RESULTS OF MY APPROACH TO 1/8 TH. So far its been an up hill climb and im very pleased with what i seen with my real world testing. I think the nitro, LSH and XLSH converts will see my approach as a `great place to start' in 1/8 to jump from nitro or a 12-18 cell limited to 24-26 is a natural progression plus the equipment to do it is rock solid and not very costly. When they feel ready they can take the plunge to a high end Brushed or BL or a higher cell count setup.
Like you EDDIE im in 1/8 for the scale thing, performance is important but not enough to toss in a grand.

ANDREW G [quote]The 26 cell limited 1/8 looks like it will be dog slow on an electric oval[quote]
Your calling my setup a dog? I guess im a dog lover!LOL
Infact, i finding theres a lot of dog lovers out there!

[Andrewg]

Ken

then by all means showcase them.

But you have said you are reluctant to.

Does this mean you are about to give up some lap times, runtimes and top speed numbers.

Looking forward to it - it is what the class needs now. My suggestions were aimed at helping your development of a cheap fast class and I raised an issue which is showing up int he numbers for it

Looking forward to your numbers - I thinkt his class has potential but iI also think it has to offer modellers a little more than LSH or they are going to go back to th at much cheaper class.

[K.R.Joye]

Andrew G
Thanks to this and other`MACH 5 racing '800GRX and 800GR`XL' related threads, we've received quite a few emails and PMs from`potential customers' and have sent out info and `MACH 5 racing' products requested. I really don't need your help at the moment but thanks for the offer. Having the realworld setup to test in various configurations takes alot of the theoritical guesswork out of the equation.

Ken Joye
`MACH 5 racing'

[Andrewg]

Ken


As I have said my concerns are a maybe.

I guess you know the limits of the GRX's.

I cant wait to get some $'s together to test a range of motors in my 1/8th, especially against the nitro boats. Like Lou with the 1/4 cracker box I have to wait till after Xmas

Any chance of a vid of your 1/8 on an electric oval (particulalry against a LSH).

I think regardless of the outcome it would give interest in the limited 1/8 class a shot in the arm.

[AndyKunz]

Originally posted by LOU
Hi Andy, When will the Emperor be available?

I got too busy. I took 2 days off work and spent most of the time getting Fred's stuff ready for a swap shop last night (sold everything we took so it was worth it). Even taking that time off, this is the first time in more than 24 hours I've been able to check e-mail or RRR.

I have 6 boards almost ready to ship to testers.

Andy