aluminum brazing rod

[eddieh]

Hello gents, thought I would post something about Brazing aluminum, I have tried a bunch of different stuff to try to weld aluminum, (braze) and most with out much great success, but I have to say , I was shopping in the woodworkers warehouse (shop in jersey) and found this product called proweld for aluminum, man it works great, no flux, no fumes, no sh*t!!, really works well, and it polishes like chrome after , i will post a few picks afterwork, I tried the stuff from the wram show wasn't impressed but this stuff definately good to have, all you need is a propane torch, and it wasn't expensive 3 pounds for about 10 frogskins, definately a bargain, I paid 5 bucks for a small tube(maybe 3 oz) of the aluminum welding gorilla goop , and it didn't work half as well,,,, just a thought gents,,, cheers eddie

[Avenger]

i like to TIG (Tungston Inenert Gas) weld the weld is actualy stronget than the metal itself, i am extrelmly good at it too, so good infact i might get a job at a place as a welder! and that uses filler rod!

[eddieh]

venger, that's good, but a lot of guys don't keep a tig welder under their building boards, and not everyone knows how to tig weld, so there are alternatives, and what do you do if at 12 o'clock at night and you need to braze a piece of aluminum,,, this stuff is really good, it's cheap, (less then the gas refill of a tig) and it is easier to manage, tig is good but it is overkill for this application,,, cheers eddie

[Paul]

Hello Guys,

TIG welding is fine for welding thicker aluminum materials but try welding a piece of the thin stuff we use for hardware and you'll quickly learn that it can't be done without distorting the material. The brazing type rods have very low melting points as compared to TIG welding and you have less of a chance to ruin your work.

BTW: I am an ASW certified all position welder.

Paul.

[eddieh]

anyway gents if you don't have a tig welder here's a close-up of the welds, with the aluminum rod pretty smooth! and think how many boats you can buy with money you saved anyway check it out,,, have a great day

[Doug Forrester]

Eddie
Are you running the boat as it is in the photo? If so, you sure have to get rid of that prop nut and that thrust washer (ahead of drive dog). I can't even begin to consider the potential drag.

[Avenger]

yeah yeah, i know that there are some draw backs, like thin or cast aluminum! that will melt & run like there is no tomorow! but yeah, i can do brazing too, get the oxy torch going and i can do it!

[eddieh]

Doug to be honest I did run that but only for the test, I am on my way to home depot to get some stainless, it wasn't bad fro the prather, but I knew I would need to change it for the rest, a thought I was playing with was bending the rudder mount to the right sort of dog leg it, I wasn't thrilled with this setup either, and while the rudder looks ok, it isn't worth the beercans it's made of LOL, well back to the drawing board thanx for the input doug, I need all the help I can get!!, cheers eddie here's a look from the other side

[Jeff Wohlt]

Very cool...I have been looking for something like this. How strong and is it a rod...what part number?

[eddieh]

Jeff it's strong, I took a piece of thick walled aluminum tubing, cut a small slot with my milling machine (could of used a hacksaw) and put another piece of aluminum flat on top and made the strut, you wouldn't be able to separate that for nothing, for your second question, it's a rod, trick is to use a regular propane torch and heat it up all together, rub the rod on the joint, and when the material starts to stick, run it back and forth for a smooth joint, takes a little practice, but heck they said the same thing about running a hydro, I'm ok with the welding, working on the hydro,,, really easy to use stuff jeff,
here's the details
ALUMI-PRO
BAC INDUSTRIES
MINNEAPOLIS MN 55343
612 945-9058
I THINK i SAID 3 LBS, BUT I LIED IT'S A HALF POUND FOR 9.99
ANYWAY i HAVE USED IT A LOT, AND HAVE EVEN MANAGED TO WELD THIN TUBE, SHEETMETAL ETC,,, CHEERS EDDIE

[AndyKunz]

Eddie,

Is this the stuff they show at the WRAMS show every year soldering Coke cans together? If so, that's stuff is great and really tough. You are right about how to solder with it - heat the whole thing with propane and let it flow.

I have a bunch of those rods here and use them whenever the need arises.

Andy

[eddieh]

Andy, the last stuff I saw at the wram show was the tube of liquid solder and flux together, it worked great at the show, but I was very disappointed once I got it home, I might have missed the rods these could be the same, I bought these at the woodworkers warehouse off rt 1 going to edison, 9.99 for the half pound which equals a dozen rods or so, the great thing about it is there is no flux, I am a little heavy handed, and what usually happens is the flux starts to burn, before I can get the weld made, the technique here is perfect , as you rub the rod back and forth (this moves any oxidation to the outside) and produces a beutiful smooth as silk weld, when used in conjunction with thick wall aluminum tube, the weld acts like a stressing member and adds great rigidity, just don't drop the aluminum in water to cool down, as it will make the weld brittle, cheers and good luck guys, eddie

[Paul5910]

Thanks for the info Eddie! I have always had hell trying to braze aluminum, as it tends to melt about the same time the rod starts to (what a mess!) Ill try to track down some of those wonder rods in Houston.

Thanks..

Paul Fitch

[eddieh]

Paul, I'll look up the phone number and post it for you, and they may be able to tell you were to pick it up, as i said the stuff is really good, very strong and makes a nice polished joint afterwards, cheers eddie

[vicman]

ED,

Heres the website for BAC IND.http://www.bacindustries.com/welding.html
Theres more than one kit they have for this and other things as well.

vicman/v.m.p.

[eddieh]

Thanks Vic Man, I was glad to see some different size rods available, Just made an aluminum steering wheel for a semi scale project , and this was very light weight sheet and rod, worked great, had a problem with clamping though,,, but evetually all worked ok,,, thanks again, cheers ed

[Spawn_X]

http://www.bacindustries.com/bac17a.jpg

For that I could basically use a regular propane blowtorch and that would get the job done?

[twmaster]

That is great stuff. I remember when that came out like 10 yrs ago, A friend of my father welded a couple of parts together with this stuff then dared me (6'5" 300+ pounds) to break the welded part off. Could not do it. I broke the part off alright. Above the weld.

I just need to find somebody local that has it.

[eddieh]

Spawn/Mike, yes a regular propane will work fine, I find Mapp gass a little hotter it works fine, I bought the small torch from Micromark (40 usd0 and I have to say it was worth every penny as it is a really nice pen tip, I just welded up some more hardware it really works well, will post the pics once the camera's up and running, but look for a thread old boat new hardware I posted some pics of aluminum hardware I welded up,cheers eddie

[Spawn_X]

1 more question.

Which one would you go with, an oxygen/acetalyn torch and use a small tip / regular brazing rod or use a propane torch/alum brazing rod? Cost is not an issue.

[Dan Chase]

Thanks, Eddie! I have been working on a drag boat, I had made the rear wing support out of soldered brass and wasn't happy with the results, to heavy, plus I wanted that polished aluminum look. This looks like just the ticket!

[eddieh]

Originally posted by Spawn_X
1 more question.

Which one would you go with, an oxygen/acetalyn torch and use a small tip / regular brazing rod or use a propane torch/alum brazing rod? Cost is not an issue.
spawnman, the trouble with the oxy/acetylene is too much heat, this is fine for brazing, etc but too much for the aluminum, I haven't tig welded but if you need really heavy duty stuff done that would be the way to go, I can't see it for anything in fe that you would need that much strength, even the oxy map would be too hot, I was able to braze thin wall tubing together if your carefull enough, key is to try to keep all pieces of equal thickness, or a larger thinner piece, for example, when I welded the pick-up tube for the water cooling, (thin wall)
when I welded to the bracket which was twice as thick, I left the tubing long, and cut it later concentrate the heat on the thicker piece to avoid burn through, the thin wall will heat up at the same time through radiant heat, keep testing the joint with the rod but don't leave the rod in direct contact with flame, eventually as you rub the rod over the seam, it becomes very liquid, and leaves a beautiful joint, if you are a scale kind of guy, you can rotate the rod while dragging it and it looks very close to scale heliarc weld, so to answer your question stick with the plain mapp gas, and grab that micro torch from micromark, cheers eddie

[Avenger]

you can use oxy/acetylene but yes there is alot of heat in that method... it is hard for me and i have lots of experience in metal working machines and welding... a small tip would be the start i have i micro oxy/acet torch and i can get the flame on that to about .01" it is a jewlers torch allmost but the set was quite expencive so yeah like eddieh said a mapp gas or propane torch would do the job for you just as well... and as for TIG anything over about .125" that needs strength get it TIG welded or an aluminum wire feed. (tig looks better tho!)

[eddieh]

Originally posted by Dan Chase
I had made the rear wing support out of soldered brass and wasn't happy with the results, to heavy, plus I wanted that polished aluminum look.
Dan, if you draw out exactly what you want on a piece of paper include sizes, thickness, then scan it, send it to me via email, and i'll make it up for you, i have a milling machine etc, happy to help if you want, (my fee is usually one ice coldee, but will wave that after the great job on the logo LOL) another thought to polished aluminum is that engine turned look, like the old geeteeohs, and the studebaker golden hawk, it can be done easily with a drill press and a brass wire cup wheel from dremel , chuck the wheel into the press, clamp the piece into the vice, start at the very bottom, bring the cup lightly down on the aluminum, then up it will have left a round pattern, now move the piece until the outside edge of the cup, will touch the center of the first circle, and so on, it's really quick if you have an x y table, just a thought
let me know if you want me to help. cheers eddie
btw send to the comcast address I'm on vacation,,,,

[Dan Chase]

Thanks, Eddie! I think I still need to get some of that stuff, welding aluminum is something I always find a need for. See in the attached pics, the wing struts on the flatbottom on the bottom is like what I built out of brass. It is fine other then I cant get that aluminum look and it weights to much. The Hydro on the top is the "look" I'm trying to get.

[eddieh]

Dan, no problem, I agree with you, I use that aluminum brazing all the time, the tubing will weld up easy, but I would suggest thick wall for the two main supports, and solid rod for the bracing. another thought would be to get the aluminum tubes the flyboys use, it's sort of aerofoil shape and comes in different sizes, anyway good luck and keep us posted,,, cheers eddie

[EVADER09]

wow nice brazing job eddie. I am not the best with aluminum but I can weld like that with steel. With aluminum I always heat the metal to much and it all boils and looks junky but with steel its another story for me. I'll jsut have friends do aluminum for me and I'll do steel for them.

[Dan Chase]

Thanks, Eddie, that aerofoil shape aluminum tubes sounds like just the ticket! I'll check my LHS for some! Now I just need to find that rod!

[ctoms]

This is very cool.

I called Bac Industries where this Alumi-Pro stuff comes from and she said she has been getting calls from all over the world in the last few weeks for people looking for this product and most were model boaters.

Charlie

[Dan Chase]

Yes, I called today as well, she told me she has been busy all day with emails and phone calls from RC Boaters. My, the force of the internet is great!

[eddieh]

Well I hope you guys told her who posted the tip!!!!LOL, maybe I can get a discount, or better yet let rumrunner hobbies stock it, and they get the discount,help pay for the cool site,, anyway really glad you guys like the tip, Dan if you are in a hurry, i can send you a couple of rods, and some of the airfoil stuff if you can't find it, K & S makes it, cheers eddie

[Spawn_X]

Originally posted by Eddieh
[B]anyway really glad you guys like the tip, Dan if you are in a hurry,[B]

You should :) this is January thread which I brought back up because thought it would be good usefull info to have again.

Any idea on the cost ?? I haven't had a chance to call them yet..

[eddieh]

Spawnman, I paid 9 or 10 bucks for half a pound, which as i said works out to about a dozen rods, I paid more for my silver solder and got less, the other day I was in home depot, near the plumbing section to get some mapp gas I saw a pack of rods (qty two) that looked similar, but made by someone else, that was 4 or 5 buckaroos for two rods, (no thank you, very little) let me know if you guys can't find it and we can work something out, cheers eddie

[Dan Chase]

Originally posted by Eddieh
Well I hope you guys told her who posted the tip!!!!LOL, maybe I can get a discount, or better yet let rumrunner hobbies stock it, and they get the discount,help pay for the cool site,, anyway really glad you guys like the tip, Dan if you are in a hurry, i can send you a couple of rods, and some of the airfoil stuff if you can't find it, K & S makes it, cheers eddie

Thanks, Eddie! I have some phone numbers for mail order, if I have any problems with them I might take you up on your generous offer!

[eddieh]

Dan, no problem, let me know if you get stuck , cheers

[George Pfeifer]

This product is available from www.northerntool .com

George

[vicman]

Is EVERYONE buying this stuff now? My order (over a week ago) still hasnt been shipped. usually it is shipped in a couple of days at least. Guess it got everyones attention here in the U.S. anyhow. For some strange reason, seems alot of Model Boat builders are ordering left and right, cutting the supply for those who try to keep it on hand. Wonder why that could be?.?LOL...

vicman

[eddieh]

It's that Avenger dude, he is cornering the market so nobody else can build another aluminum hull,,,, all kidding aside, I have been able to solder some very thin aluminum sheet with this, wonder if icould make a hull? or maybe just the tub for a rigger, be a little heavier, but very high on the cool factor, maybe you could use the tub for a giant heat sink,,, hmmmmmmm now that's an idea!!, cheers eddie

[vicman]

Ed,
Those wheels are ever turning arent they?

If you do I think you should show us pics as it progresses, not just the final result.

vicman

[eddieh]

Vicman, can post some pics of the brazed aluminum sheet if you want, wether or not I do a tub remains to be seen LOL, But it is a cool Idea,,, could look like the spirit of st louis with the engine turned effect, or all polished up and carbon filled hardware??? I gotta switch to Decaf!!!LOL, cheers eddie

[Dan Chase]

What would be cool, is a wood mono with alternating polished wood slates and polished aluminium slates on the deck!!!

Think Paul Pachmyers (sp?) "Sporten Wood"

[eddieh]

Dan, I have enough projects floating around in my head , but if your willing to build it, I have some very very nice black ebony, I will send you some, you will however need some really good tools to cut this stuff,,,,,, BTW How's the dragster doin??????? cheers eddie

[eddieh]

I have this single class race in my club, the boats are these "floating shoeboxes" called a barnegat bay garvey, anyway they have to have reverse, so I had this old electronic esc laying around, what I did was remove the aluminum heat sink cut a groove in it and brazed on a piece of thick wall aluminum tube with this rod , this puppy used to get very hot, now with water passing over it, it stays very cool. anyway thought I would mention it, cheers eddie