Krylon Clear over Testor's Model Mstr???

[Drobie]

Has anyone use Krylon Clear over Testor's Model Mstr?

If not, can anyone recommend a clear coat to use over the Testor's product?

[KevinW]

A risky move.

Even if someone comes back and says that the combo worked for them, I would takes the extra couple of days to try it out on some scrap pieces.

Sanding and repainting takes much longer.

It being Krylon clear, there is a greater chance of success than putting a colored Krylon over any other brand. Krylon (colors) seems to have a formula that is incapatable with most other paints. At least for me.

KW

[George Pfeifer]

Doug;

Below is a link to one of my boats, the yellow is Testors Piper Yellow (spray) and the Maroon is Krylon, the railings are all Testors brush on Yellow for plastic models, the entire boat has 4 coats of Krylon Clear. I have always used Krylon Clear as my final coat. The only time that I have had a problem was trying to put Krylon over Polyurathane, and that turned out to be a cure time problem ( didn't let the Poly dry long enough)
If you are still concerned Testors does made a shiney lacquer clear coat in the small spray cans, should be available at most hobby shops. I don't like Testors spray paints, have never had good luck with them. The paint is good, but I think the propellant is not.
George

http://www.emyc.org/images/photo/scale/3/ScaleAlbum3/scale_73_JPG.html

[Drobie]

Originally posted by George Pfeifer
I don't like Testors spray paints, have never had good luck with them. The paint is good, but I think the propellant is not.

I have to agree with you, George. I put a Testors coat down last night. It's still tacky after 12 hours and another coat that's 24 hours old is still not ready to sand.

On the other hand, Krylon goes on easy, dries fast, sands well and appears to very durable. Too bad they don't make more colors.

I used a spray can, but maybe it's time to break out my airbrush. I'll just have to bite the bullet and succumb to the cleaning routine. Kind of like going to the dentist for me.

[George Pfeifer]

Doug;
Where do you buy your Krylon, I have found that it makes a difference where you buy it in terms of the choice in colors. The discount stores carry only the basic shades. Try a craft store such as Michael's and you find a wider variety of colors.

Also, don't ever buy "brush on" Krylon in cans - really bad.

As for the drying time of Testor's, yeah that is a problem too. I think I ended up using a blow drier on low heat and doing it several times to finally get it dried out.

George

[Drobie]

I'll try the craft shops. We have a couple of big, almost warehouse types here.

This morning I put the boat in the sun on the sill of huge picture window. With these 80 degree temps we're having, it should bake it pretty good today.

Doug

[Al E.]

K-Mart's got a nice rainbow of Krylon colors along with primers and Crystal Clear for $2.49. I'm glad they're not going out of business! If no K-mart nearby, try their website.

[Drobie]

Thanks guys. I've learned a few things.

Krylon is laquer, Model Masters is enamel. I am reminded of one of the golden rules of paint mixing:

enamel over laquer, but not laquer over enamel.

I made a mistake in using Testors Model Masters because I hadn't stopped to think that I had primed with Krylon many weeks back.

Testors Pactra Racing Finishings are laquer, and I think I can get the same color I started with, so I'll sand most of this first coat off and switch.

Live and learn, except that I am often not a slow learner, just a fast forgetter.

[KevinW]

[I am reminded of one of the golden rules of paint mixing:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laquer over enamel is OK but not enamel over laquer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------]


Doug,

You've got that backwards. Enamel over laquer will work, laquer will wrinkle when applied over enamel.

KW

[George Pfeifer]

Let's see if I have this right:

Testor's Model Master is ENAMEL
Testor's Clear Coat is LACQUER
Testor's recommends using the clear coat over their enamel.

Krylon PAINT is: (I don't know) I suspect that it is at least lacquer based due to its quick drying time.
Krylon Clear Coat is ACRYLIC; i.e. neither enamal or lacquer.

Therefore you should be able to use either one over Testor's Model Master!
Am I right?

Doug; if all else fails, do what the guys who build static model cars do: Sneak into the kitchen, steal your wife's bottle of "FUTURE FLOOR FINISH" and put a coat on the boat with either a brush or an airbrush. Let it dry overnite. Once dry you will have a shiny, waterproof finish. Future is 100% pure acyrlic. Brushes and airbrushes cleanup easily with soap and water. I have used this on one boat and it looks and wears well.
WORD OF WARNING: Don't let your wife see you do this or she will expect you to clean and shine the kitchen floor!!!

Due to the fact that Krylon Clear is Acrylic I think that you should be able to use it over virtually anything.
George

[Drobie]

You're partially right, George. Testors has several different clear coats...enamel, laquer and acrylic, but they do say their clear laquer can be used over their enamels.

(Krylon Clear is an "acrylic laquer". Check the label. It says it cleans up with a laquer thinner, an identification tip from someone at Krylon.)

I think I'll be OK with this project. I have a mist coat of enamel over laquer, but I'm going to give it a good sanding and do the rest in laquer. There won't be enough paint to wrinkle.

In the future, I'm going to stick with laquer, if for no other reason than the shortened dry time.

You've got that backwards. Enamel over laquer will work, laquer will wrinkle when applied over enamel.

I stand corrected Kevin. Modeler's dyslexia. Hope no one read that an ran out to paint. I don't need a lawsuit cutting into my hobby money. :D

[Sheltered]

I'll jump in and add my 2 cents.

Krylon color is enamel

Model master color is enamel I think (Never used it)

Krylon (crystal) clear is acrylic/lacquer

Model Master Clear is enamel I think.(Never used it)

Lacquer never completely cures. This is whar causes the incompatibility. It is always soft but dries exceptionally fast.

Krylon color is a hot solvent enamel and thus dries fast. I highly recommend Krylon if you are using rattle cans. Why do you think that all of the graffiti taggers prefer it?

Krylon crystal clear is an oddball. It is acrylic but has a lacquer base. Have have used it successfully over Krylon enamels, however I was never completely satisfied with the results. The depth did not "pop" like with 2 part urethane.

I recently discovered Rustoleum's clear enamel spray at Home Depot. By far this is the best rattle can clear that I have ever used. No crazing, with good depth, and no yellowing. The price is good, and fewer health issues than with the 2-part stuff.

I make it a point to use only enamel paint and no lacquer. You are just asking for trouble by mixing the two.

If you must mix them, test first! Then build up a bunch of really light layers.

[KevinW]

[Hope no one read that an ran out to paint. I don't need a lawsuit cutting into my hobby money. :D]

They could just chalk it up as a lesson learned (the hard way). Til' you've sanded off a nice wrinkled paint job, you haven't really lived.


KW

[Drobie]

Originally posted by Sheltered
Krylon color is enamel

I'm not sure what you mean by Krylon "color". Their "Interior/Exterior" line is laquer. The label says to clean up with laquer thinner and a call to their "800" number confirms that this entire line is "acrylic laquer.

Thanks for the tip on the Rustoleum clear product.

I worry about urethane yellowing.

Lacquer never completely cures. This is what causes the incompatibility. It is always soft but dries exceptionally fast.

I won't argue with that, nor will I ever mix the two. However, those three sentences raise an eyebrow. I wonder why enamel can go over laquer and not vice versa if laquer never cures. I would think all solvents evaporate eventually.

[Sheltered]

I Checked the Krylon web site and you are correct. It is curious that they work so well. Especially sticking to plastic, which industrial lacquer has difficulty doing even when sanded. (my first boats I tried to paint with auto lacquer failed miserably) Goes to show you...read the labels.

I'll check my Krylon stock....I thought they were enamel. Some of mine are years old, but Krylon has probably not changed its line. I would guess that some of their metallics are enamel.

Most of the sandable primers are lacquer based.

I also noticed that there is Crystal Clear and Acrylic Crystal clear on their site. I don't know if there is any difference between the two.

The incompatibilities with paint come from the different curing rates. If lacquer is put over enamel it dries faster than the enamel and therefore wrinkles/crazes. The crackle finish paints you buy exploit this for this desired effect in a controllablemanner.

After lacquer cures it is still soft (as compared to urethane or enamel), that is just its nature.

I painted airbrush graphics on electric guitars for a living for a year or so and we used lacquer over urethane, and top coated with clear urethane Once in a while we would get a guitar back to strip and repaint. It was wild when we "removed" the lacquer graphic from its urethane "envelope", it would shrink dramatically and distort, as it began to cure more.

[Drobie]

Originally posted by Sheltered
(my first boats I tried to paint with auto lacquer failed miserably)

Thanks for that warning. I was going to stop by an auto body supply and see what they had. Just curious...what was the nature of the failure? There is a lot of various between brands in all types of paints.

I'd really like to find a laquer that works, but that has a wider color selection than Krylon's.

Spraying enamel out of a can (at least the Testor's products) has proven to be a pain. Too much paint. I've been resisting getting out my airbrush, but I guess it's time.

I also just bought a bigger touch up gun off eBay. I have a compressor, so that might make the process a little less of a hassle.

[Sheltered]

The automotive paint I used was mixed and sprayed out of an airbrush. It did not adhere to the plastic at all. Peeled off in large sections. The plastic was prepped correctly. I've shot Krylon on wood and plastic with few problems. It really is great paint.

However, since krylon appears to be a form of lacquer it makes sense that you could shoot a coat of white as an undercoat/ primer and paint the auto lacquer over the top successfully. Maybe scuff up the surface of the white with a scotchbrite pad for adhesion.

I really assumed Krylon was enamel. Most of my boats have Kylon on them somewhere (even over Rustoleum and Auto enamel). I'll check my old stock tonight to see what it is.

I've left testors paint alone because:

It is expensive
It's poor quality of application

I used to shoot a lot of auto enamel when I could get a pint of it for $10-15. Last time I checked the auto paint store wanted $45- 50 for the same thing. Now I'm pretty much strictly rattle can. That is why I like the Rustoleum clear so much.

The one thing that is great about auto paint through a spray gun is the metallics tend to have far larger reflective particals and the finish is stunning as compared to a rattle can metallic. I've used the Rustoleum metallics and they seem to have a very large partical for a rattlecan.

[Drobie]

Originally posted by Sheltered
However, since krylon appears to be a form of lacquer it makes sense that you could shoot a coat of white as an undercoat/ primer and paint the auto lacquer over the top successfully. Maybe scuff up the surface of the white with a scotchbrite pad for adhesion.

I really assumed Krylon was enamel.

Using Krylon "Exterior/Interior" White Primer may be the ticket.

I called an autobody supply shop here, 30-80 bucks to mix a pint of lacquer. Makes you wonder how Krylon can do it for 3 bucks a can.

We all need to lobby Krylon to expand their color range. Last week, I called their "800" number to find out what other lines are compatible with their Int/Ext acrylic laquer. I was told their "Short Cuts" craft line was the same stuff. Wrong....it's enamel.

Any other ideas as alternatives to Festor Bestor Testor?

[Sheltered]

I checked my stock and my suspicions were correct. My metalics are labeled "Krylon metalic enamel" which I guess caused me to assume that the solid colors were enamel also. The labeling on the solid color cans does not really tell you what it is. It makes me ponder as to why some of my lacquer/enamel combinations worked without wrinkles. Maybe I "willed" them not to mess up.

Perhaps some of my old cans, 4-6 years old actually might be enamel. There was a time when I was doing a lot of painting (not necessarily boats) an I loaded up on krylon when it was less than $2.00 can. When I airbrush graphics a lot of times I just squirt spray paint into the airbrush cup. It is like having ready mixed airbrush paint on hand.

I use the Glossy White as an undercoat quite often. (rather than the white primer)

Boy....I'm going to be a little nervous the next time I paint.

[Drobie]

Near as I can tell, the only Krylon's that are laquer are the "Interior/Exterior" line. I was told that to verify what type of paint, simply look for the clean up instructions. Laquer will usually direct you to clean up with a laquer thinner.

Has anyone ever tried using quality water-based acrylics and then overcoating with a clear like Krylon Clear?

[Sheltered]

That is how I paint my drivers.

[Sheltered]

I paint my drivers this way. I typically use arttistic acrylics with a coat of crystal clear on the top.

[Drobie]

Originally posted by Sheltered
I paint my drivers this way. I typically use arttistic acrylics with a coat of crystal clear on the top.

If it works on drivers and you cover with clear, why not the whole boat.

Color selection is huge, clean up with water, clear coat with Krylon. A lot of pluses.

What am I missing?

[Sheltered]

These are brush on style paints. They thin poorly for spraying.

I have heard good things about createx brand airbrush paint. It is suppused to stick on just about anything, wood, metal, leather, etc... It might be a bit pricey to paint a boat larger than lets say a 24" hydro.

[Paul]

Hello Doug,

Parma Fascolor is a water based paint I've used on boats but the problem I had was the paint peeling from hatch tape. I tried doing a bit of research and found the method I used to apply it was wrong. I will be testing this stuff again to see if Parmas recommendation works, I hope so cause the colors are killer and they take the Krylon clear with no problem.

Recommended application:

Krylon white primer

Fascolor straight from the bottle, no thinning spray at 40psi

Krylon clear.

I was thinning mine at 35/40% possibly causing adhering problems.

I used Parma Fascolor white as a primer. Another problem?

The spec hydro I had at Batavia was painted with Fascolor.

Paul

[Drobie]

I think I'm going to jump on some Createx for my next model. There paint doesn't cost anymore than Testors or Pactra, probably much less.

Their website is www.createxcolors.com .

Geez, check out the color pallet for Auto Airbrush colors. Move over Festor Bestor Testor.

I am blissfully looking forward to cleaning up with water.

[Sheltered]

I would use their premixed airbrush colors an not try to mix my own. It might be wise to add their "bond all" additive especially if you plan to put any tape over it. I would rinse my airbrush with water and then run something with a little zip (thinner/cleaner) into it to get the acrylic remnants out. Acrylic can really gum up an airbrush.

I know that it is sold at many sign painting/screen printing supply stores.

I've never used it before, but read reviews of it in the airbrush publications. I've been meaning to try it for some time...not necessarily on boats.

My only reservations in using a waterbased paint is the softness issue. We'll have to see how various clear coats effect it.

If someone gets some results soon...post them! I'm quite curious.

[Dunk]

Drop the comma after the .com and the link works.
http://www.createxcolors.com/