Power UP

[Garry Finlay]

Mygwad, there are some nice hulls being built. My admiration goes out to all of you. It’s about the time people start thinking about powering these things up. Here are my favorite 6 cell set-ups:

Classic round nose. I think this hull is best with a 10 – 12 turn brushed motor. It will handle brushless power, but you will be constantly working to keep this sucker on the water. I use a 12 turn P94 and a stock X430 (sharpened and balanced), with the straight shaft. This setup will pop the hull free of the water instantly when the power is applied. It rides high and loose, but is pretty stable if the water is not too bumpy. If you do go brushless, use the wire drive.

Low profile Notre Dame round nose. This hull will handle a lot of power. I use a Lehner Basic 5300 a wire drive and a very small stock X427. It takes a light touch on the throttle to get the boat out of the hole. But once it breaks free, the acceleration is very good and you will NOT be disappointed with the top speed. With the small wheel, cornering is very consistent and flat. It will do well with an X430 also. You may have to move the balance point to 1.25and/or lower the prop to .56 to keep it anchored if the water gets rough.

Atlas pickle-fork. This boat will handle just about any power you can stuff in it. I have a CP4400 with an X432 with the tongue cut back . You could use an X632 and maybe an X435 – hang on. It will corner well at all speeds. About the only thing it does not like is a sharp left turn at the end of the straight with the power on – I don’t know any boat that handles that very well.

These are starting points. You will want to use what you are already familiar with. All these boats run well with mild power set-ups. It is the really hot systems that will challenge even the experienced racers.

After all the work, you are getting close to the really fun part, getting wet.

Garry

[R.J.West]

I was looking at the Lehner basic 5300 for my notre dame but money, or lack of was the deciding factor here. I went for a Speed Gem Pro 10 turn brushed motor. According to FE Calc, It should move very well on six cells.
My question would be, what would be a good ESC to use for this setup? It would have to be small since there is little room in this hull. I was thinking about the Astro 207D. Whats your opinion Garry?

[Garry Finlay]

I have a bunch of DuraTrak Streak controllers I have been using for years on my 05 brushed motors, where the SC-8s, Victorys, or other Andy K. controllers don’t fit.

These cheap ($40 from Tower) little controllers just keep running and running. Keep them dry, cut off that blasted power switch and solder the wires together, and you are good-to-go.

Garry

[Darin Jordan]

If you want something more expensive, but completely water proof... the LRP Quantum 2 or 3 controllers are excellent as well... and REALLY small... My Quantum 2 Competition can handle down to a 5-turn... Pretty sweet!

[R.J.West]

Yes, I have been considering the DuraTrax Streak ESC, however I was concerned about it handling the heat and /or Amperage. Would it work up to 7 or 8 cells and a hot brushed motor?

[Garry Finlay]

I've used the Streak with 8 cells down to a 15 turn D-3. About the only things it dislikes are getting wet and lots of low throttle on high cell counts - then just wait for the thermal shut-off to relax, and you are off again.

Garry

[Stratcat]

RJ,
Heres what I am using.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-Smart-Water-Resistant-50A-Speed-Controller-ESC-06UKS_W0QQitemZ6050541095QQcategoryZ2564QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They also sell have a 100 amper for 10 bucks more. Shipping is about 3 weeks, so dont check your mailbox daily:thumup:

[R.J.West]

Well Im still trying to decide what motor to use for racing. Looks like I would have to run my notre dame hull in the O class hydro which is 7-8 cells. I have an Astro 05 5T instaled in the hull now, but need a 5/32 to .098 connector. I also have a Astro 05 4T which is rated for 6-7 cells, and a new 10T car motor. Any suggestions?

[Garry Finlay]

The little Notre Dame hull performs best at around 2¼ - 2½ pounds. I’ll bet it is happiest with the 10 turn, 6 cells and an X430.

Garry

[aod8850]

Question. Will those low turn car motors run good without smokin' brushes every run. I am just asking because I have run expensive 11 and 10 turns in my xxx buggy for racing and I had to put brushes in every heat. We run five minute heats and mains and I only used about half of my charge each run on 3300's. By the way, The brushes had no wear, but they were discolored half way down the brush. I had gearing and timing correct. I'm no newbie to offroad racing. If boats don't hurt em that bad then I,ll just run one of those. Any thoughts?

[Dr. Jet]

From reading what Jay Turner has written I believe you should use the hard silver brushes and heavy springs.

[aod8850]

Thanks Dr. J! I think I'll start some testing at the track this weekend. I'l have to pick up a bunch of different brushes at lunch and see what happens. I already use purple springs on all my modifieds.

[Stratcat]

I have been using a 14 turn Mad Science motor for testing. I have made 4 runs and no signs of wear yet, By the way, this little boat cooks right along :thumup: I hade to "tune" the boat a little. little things like cutting the air dams down because I goofed and they were parallel with the ride pads, fixing the turn fin so it was straight. I am using the plastic 531 with the 14 but will use the 431 with the 12 turn when the other 7 guys finish their boats.
The CG plays a big part!!!! Experiment.

[Darin Jordan]

Mike,

What is a "531"??? The purple plastic ProBoat prop is a Y534, if I recall correctly... Is there another plastic Octura out there???

[eddieh]

isn't the red prop a 531????

[eddieh]

isn't the red prop a 531????
no the red one is the 431.........

maybe it was the red mrp prop????

[Dr. Jet]

The purple plastic props are the Y5xx variety. They come in Y531 and Y534 varieties. I have several here in front of me at this very moment.....

[Stratcat]

Darin,
Purple Y531 ..... works like a charm :thumup: I have 3 plastics by Octura. 431, 531 and a 534.

Eddieh,
Are you talking to yourself? LOL

[aod8850]

Well that makes me feel better about at least trying it with a lower turn modified. I hope if I find the right brushes I can keep from cookin' them. I was just worried since the fe calculator said I would be well over 70 amps with a tiny little x427. I don't even know if that prop is big enough to keep this boat out of the water. I realize that the calculator isn't exact and is for a general guess on a setup, but those numbers are alarming for a little 540 car motor. I'll just have to try and see:yeah:

[Stratcat]

Well that makes me feel better about at least trying it with a lower turn modified. I hope if I find the right brushes I can keep from cookin' them. I was just worried since the fe calculator said I would be well over 70 amps with a tiny little x427. I don't even know if that prop is big enough to keep this boat out of the water. I realize that the calculator isn't exact and is for a general guess on a setup, but those numbers are alarming for a little 540 car motor. I'll just have to try and see:yeah:

12 turn with the 431.......Well at least with the Proboat speedo. It is only rated at 40 amps :) I dont know about the 9-10 turn motors, Maybe 5 cells:eek: Hmmmm, just ran the numbers on FE with a 5 cell:confused: Maybe I will give that a try....as I have a few Hot motors left from car racing myself.. 10 turn and 5 cells with a 430 prop= about 45 amps and 38 MPH. MJ

[aod8850]

I made a mistake on the prop. I entered an x432 which is close to the x431 plastic and I got 70.01 amps. I checked it again with a 427 and it was only 46.51 so maybe that is the setup to run. Once again that is with a trinity 10 turn. I'm pretty sure my ten turn is hotter than a cheap speed gems but it may work with a 427.

[Stratcat]

Dont sell the Speedgems short, its an old D5(I think)can with P94 brushes and a machine wound arm.....only real difference is a machine has wound the arm. Some are better than others though :thumup:
I'm not sure if a 427 will keep the back up :confused: Try 5 cells and let me know :) So I don't have to :yeah: Good Luck...MJ

[Stratcat]

I was wrong about the "can", here is info from tower

Newest technology D6 Syle motor can and endbell
4 magnet system for higher RPM
Dual ball bearings
Adjustable timing
Copper brush hoods
Three installed surface mount capacitors
Machine wound armature
Lowest resistance armature wire
Diamond trued commutator for superior brush contact
Setup sheet

These are a step up from the throw away 20 dollar motors.

[aod8850]

That sounds pretty close to my d6. If I run five cells then I bet I could use an x430 without letting the magic smoke out of anything. I think I would have a better chance of keeping the boat on plane as well. I think I'm gonna try that first and see what's up. Only 45 amps at 38 mph sounds pretty sweet to me. Thanks for the idea. I sometimes don't think outside the box.

[Stratcat]

Cool,
Glad to help. I was having the same problem, finding a cheap speedo and keeping the amps under 40-50. PLEASE let me know how this works before I try to break one of these new "end to end" packs apart :thumup: I have my fingers crossed. MJ

[R.J.West]

I'm pretty sure my ten turn is hotter than a cheap speed gems
A cheap Speed Gem? Your breaking my heart, cause thats the same motor I stuck in my Notre Damn hull. It set me back a whoppin $32 bucks.

[Stratcat]

Try an EPIC, same motor lower price.
I guess cheap is relative.....Some cost 70 bucks. If you find something with p94 bushes and built in caps "cheap " please let me know...I would like a few Thanks, MJ

[LukeZ]

Hey guys, newbie here, at least with regards to boats. I know the competition is over but I just stumbled across the plans and I'm building the Notre Dame for fun. I don't want to spend gobs of money on my powerplant, so I'm going brushed.

Just wondered if anyone could report their brushed results? Looks like several people went that way, and I'd be interested to hear what worked. Which cans have held up? Did the 5-cell approach work? Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,


Luke

[Stratcat]

I (we) have found that a streak speedo http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD523&P=ML will work just fine with no water cooling and a 16 turn epic http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJNG5&P=7 just dont run it for more than 3-4 minutes with out brush cooling. 431 prop and speeds of 20-25 mph. JB weld or drill a hole through the heat sink (forward heatsink only) and solder a couple tubes on the endbell for water cooling. If you want some pic's let me know.....MJ
Dont forget to try the Vendors on this forum for products also. Andy for speedos Fine design, Fullers, Offshore electrics and all the other great people that provide help and service.

[LukeZ]

Stratcat, what I finally ended up buying was a 12T Epic (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJNG1&P=7). It was only $26 but looks ok (what do I know?). Still, all you guys talking about going 35-40 mph made me want to do a bit faster than your 20-25!:rolleyes: I hope this will work out ok.

For power I'll use 6 GP3300s, and I have that ESC on order that you listed earlier, the one from the guy in Hong Kong that he sells on eBay. Sure hope that's not a bust either, but it wasn't too expensive. FECalc tells me that with a 427 this should only draw 30 amps but supposedly give me 33 mph. We'll see... I probably only know just enough to be dangerous with this stuff...

I have indeed checked out the vendors here and I will be ordering from them. I already have a growing list at Offshore Electric.:)

I'm bound to have more questions about the setup and other stuff, but I'll post those in the appropriate forums.


Luke

[AndyKunz]

You won't be disappointed dealing with OffshoreElectrics.

Andy

[hydronut]

:yeah: Luke happy to hear the build contest has lighted your fire. I for one had a blast and would do it again in a HEARTBEAT. I'm no expert at this but something you may want to check out before you have a problem with your boat, is the ESC I had tried to use one of that type (not saying it is the same exact type ) in one of the boats I had built in the contest. As I had built 2 boats I tried to save a little money but did end up with a problem. The speed control I used it seems overheated and basicly fused itself with a wide open throttle and crashed a newly finished boat. I later found out the ESC should not be ran on a motor with less then 17 turns. It would be best to make sure yours can handle the 12 turn EPIC. I corrected the problem by replacing it with an ANDY KUNZ Victory unit. No problems since. Both hydros I had built run very well on a Speed Gems 10 turn with a solid shaft and a X427 prop. they both scream and handle quite well. I like them so well I am currently building 2 new ones, but with less detail so there should be no fear when I run them. Several guys in our club are finishing several right now, and should be on the pond this weekend. Looking forward to seeing your build :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[Garry Finlay]

And, if you run into problems, we can get together (I live in the Cedar Hills area). We will get you going fast for sure.

Garry Finlay

[Stratcat]

My bud has a 12 turn Epic in his, it's about 6-8 mph faster but he has to change his brushes and cut the comm every 3-4 runs :) We do a "spec" type of racing with us all using 16 turn epics with the streak speedo's with water cooling on the brushes and the heatsink of the speedo. Had 4 racing last week and all I can say is WOW. Lotsa fun. We used thin plastic for "ride pads" and a 431 prop. Use a better speed control (andys) for the HP your talking about, they will work in other projects also. Good luck and keep us informed. PICTURES:wave:

[LukeZ]

hydronut, I read through both your contest build threads - "I'm no expert at this"? Sounds to me like you're being awfully modest. Your boats are works of art.

While I enjoyed your description of the runaway boat that flew 17 feet to land in a tree, you're right, I probably don't want to repeat that myself. The ESC I ordered is supposedly rated to 100 amps, but given the source I could see it not living up to expectations.

That, and what you're saying Stratcat about the brush changing all the time, I might need to rethink my approach. Maybe I will start off with a 16T and save my hotter motor for when I figure out what I'm doing.

It looks like I'll be getting plenty of good local advice whatever I do, so probably my boat shouldn't sink on the first run out... ;)


Luke

[Darin Jordan]

If you use the right brushes, you aren't going to need to change them "all the time"... I've been winning races for two seasons now with my 27T Trinity in N1-Mono and haven't even taken the motor out of the hull this season... The Aggressive RC Tech Brushes (http://www.aggressiverctech.com/) are about pretty hard, and last excellent if you prep them correctly and choose the right spring combo...

[Stratcat]

Agreed Darin,
Thats a stock motor though. A 12 turn will EAT brushes, expecially at 40 amps. I get lots of runs with my 14 turn Kyosho motor but I watch my buddys 12 turn get shorter and shorter with each run. A seasoned racer will probably put new brushes in a couple times a month along with a Comm cutting session with a 9-12 turn motor.