Trinity P-94 motor

[JfromJAGs]

Anyone any experience with this motor? Comparison to the older D4.

Did'nt Jay or Pat run such a motor in LA?

Thanks.

Joerg

[Ray Bidwell]

It was in one of their 4 cell boats, I believe it was Pats. Quite a motor 46 mph on 4 cells.

[Pooley929]

I was looking at one of those my self Guys let us know cuz the price is right

[Ray Bidwell]

Joerg check this out it is a look at the P94. www.rccaraction.com/articles/trinity_P94.asp What was real interesting is that you can get a 16% increase in power by installing the P94 brush kit into your speed gems.

[Craig]

Just my 2 cents...A guy next to me at work races a ralley car. He said this is the exact thing he is working on now and looks good for the increase of power per dollar output. Made his day to see this and how easy it was too. We found this same web site / info. Thanks Later...Craig

[Patrick M]

Hi Joerg-

Yes, I ran a P-94 in my M2 rigger. Unfortunately my Competition Electronics Dyno maxes out at 45 amps, so I'm unable to do any actual output comparisons. Per the battery capacity usage measured after each SAW run, a 6 turn arm is drawing 80 to 90 amps continuous. The magnets in the P-94 are comparable to, if not better than any, of the new generation 05 mod magnets available in the Reedy Ti, Integy, or Top cans.
The wide brush faces, as in any comparison of laydown versus upright 05 brushes, produce an increase in RPM and resulting loss of torque, due to an increase in timing and overlap. Some of the dyno comparisons I've run at 45 amps, show a 20 Watt power increase using a D4 endbell versus a P-94 endbell with no other changes to the setup. The increase in power in this case was due to a large increase in torque.
It may very well be that the increase in brush contact area of the P-94 may have a beneficial effect at high amp rates.

[Andrewg]

Pat

what you have said is real interesting

I am pretty sure the new magnets in the p94are the same as the Ti cans which are noticably stiffer than earlier generation modifieds.

I notice too the can on the P94 has more windows - presumably to increase rpm a little. I cant help think that is the wrong way for boats

I was talking to Ed Hughey this morning and he was saying he is not finding the P94's are giving him what he wants to see - altho I am pretty sure he is looking at a more torquey oval style setup

At the moment he likes the Ti cans and arms. BUT as Ed said it is a matter of matching the can endbell and arm to your purpose. And he has a feeling the range of brushes for the P94 is limited compared to the stanbups

its like my Neo not a great performer in 6/8 cell hydro - but in 6/8 cell mono on an oval and SAW its another story

It still looks like a tuners game - best tuner wins - which only underlines that Pat is an excellent tuner!

Andrew

[Patrick M]

Joerg-

The P-94 can is available in two versions, the ten turn and higher wind assembled motors have holes in the can, nine turn and lower have no holes in the can. No holes with stand up brushes is the way to go on motors for most boating applications, IMO. Hopefully, Trinity will release the individual components for these motors soon.

[JfromJAGs]

Thanks a lot for the great comments.

I want to use this motor for the Naviga Eco Standard class. Subsurface drive, 7 cells, 8min runtime, rpm under load aprox. 26000 (maybe up to 28000). With latest battery technology average currents are around 25A. So we are looking for max. efficiency at 20-30A.

We like "stiff" motors, motors which do not change rpm under load much. The reason is that you need to setup those boats for a certain speed. The possible speed bandwidth concerning the right setup is much smaller than on a mono or hydro boat.

It looks like those new brushes could help us. As well as the stronger magnets.

We are running 16-19 turn motors rigt now, D4 or similar can, so the P-94 16 double could work.
What do you think?

Joerg

[Ray Bidwell]

Joerg why not try the wider brushes on the D4. The brushes increased power from 198 to 232 watts over a 16% increase. The entire P94 put out 239 watts only 7 watts more. For only $12 you can increase your current D4 which has a wider power band and put out 233 watts. Also the D4 puts out slightly more watts in the 20-30 amp range.

[JfromJAGs]

You are right Ray, but the 2 D4's are pretty used and I would want a new can in any case. I'd like to try the stronger magnets as well.

But I thought I want an additional P-94 brushed head as well to try it on other cans.

I find it kind of hard to tell from the Robitronic charts which motor is better at certain amps. It would help a lot if they would use the amps as x axis.

Another point is that in the charts you can see that the D4 and the P-94 have their max. efficiency at 36A and 39A. So it does not make sense to compare the efficiencies of both motors between 20A and 30A. A 16T motor would be different: the point of max efficiency of a 16T should be between 20A and 30A, so these motors seam to be perfect for boats which run 25A average. Right?

Joerg

[Pooley929]

Guys that is the first thing that came to mind when I read the article can I get a little more feedback?:D

[Ray Bidwell]

I think you are right Joerg but they were comparing a 12 turn P94 39 amps to a 11 turn D4 33 amps peak efficency and the 12 turn pulled more amps. I would think that to get the efficency at 25 amps you may need more then 16T.

[Andrewg]

Joerg

I have been chasing some 05 info myself

consistently motor makers using both Yokomo and EPIC cans and the big and smaller brushes are telling me the bigger brushes are more efficient - however that appears to be it

Otherwise there is a preference for the same magnets with standard brushes

the clincher may be - the oval racers (car) who look for efficiency are tending toward the big com motors

Andrew

[Miha Holc]

The »perfected« dimensions of the P94 commutator and brushes were used by Euro and World Champion in ECO Junior Standard class in years 1996 and 1997. His father and collegue did this mods on Trinity armatures and cans. As far as I can remember they made machined endbells with watercooling. The brushes were cutted down from bigger electric motors. The motors were really well suited for the cells back then. He was using normal unmatched/unpushes SCRC1700 cells. The lifespan and durability between rebuilds was also quite amazing, but I do not remember what number of runs he used to say, but otherwise he didn't want to talk or show the motors much.
He quit model boats hobby in 1998 but some of this modified motors were still used later by some other competitors and still gave some respectable competition with RC2000 cells in Shark hulls vs. 3000 NiMH cells and winged type ECO boats.

Miha

[AndyKunz]

We had great performance using the Model Electronics Corp Turbo 10+ motors. www.modelelectronicscorp.com

These are big-comm motors with the 5mm square brushes. After a few cuts on the comm they were absolutely fantastic motors. I used to run mine with about 40 degrees of timing, making them scream.

Andy