Super hawaii 700 Mod

[Jeff Wohlt]

I re-worked the mounts (made my own) to get the 700 lower to the hull and used a graupner flex connector 5mm-4mm to connect to the stock outdrive shaft.

I spun it up last night and it is very smooth. All is good and solid. The hull needs some ply on the bottom anyway to stiffen it up.

Worked out very well...except the gruapner flex connectors have to be watched as mine is not as straight as it could be from manufac not getting the cable in as straight as it could be but no problems.

Here is a pic. I will cut a circle out of the hull at the radio end so I can run the wire and to be able to get some lube on the rear bearing since it is very close to the hull/radio box.

Glad I did it. Should run well with a 642 or even a 645.

I will try and document what I did and measure the mounts, etc if anyone wants to do this. Very simple and I think worth the effort. Will know more this weekend when I run it.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Here is the transom re-worked. I left a space between the floor ply and transom so the flex connector did not drag on the bottom ply. It could be returned to stock set up just by removing the mounts or cutting them off.

[Paul]

Hello Jeff,

Nice job, that mod should get the boat hopping, with good run time to boot.

Paul.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Thanks, Paul --and thanks for pushing me on the shaft angle. Even though it would probably have been ok...it made me look harder and think of other options...this one is much better and actually glued down better.

I hope to get as much or more speed and a cooler motor and longer run times from the 700.

The gears and 05s on 12 cells was very fast and they held up well for 2 years of hard use. Maintenance will be reduced which is the real plus I like.

This is my "wave banger boat" that I run at Lake Ozarks...big water!

[Jeff Wohlt]

Ran the Super Hawaii today with 700 mod and here are my results:

*Ran as fast with 700 and x642 as it did with 05 and gearbox.

*Stock cell set up works great and CG never had to be touched.

* Much longer run time.

* Motor/ESC and cells hardly warm which amazed me.

*No doubt x645 will still maintain great run times and faster than stock set up with 12 cells.

*The flex connector had no problems.

* Virtually no maintenance compared to the stock gearbox.

Overall...I am extremely pleased how it ran and how cool it was when I was done. I was just amazed at the run time and speed on old 1900 cells.

No wonder the Graupner V-Hull is so popular. The stepped SH runs with almost no hull in the water. Cornering is still tough at speed but this comes from the steerable outdrive.

Great mod for speed, run time, and low wear on cells & motor.

[Paul]

Hello Jeff,


* Motor/ESC and cells hardly warm which amazed me.

Sounds to me like it's time to prop it up a tad. Nice to hear it worked out well, I love it when a plan comes together. ;-)

Paul.

[popop]

From now, you can see the work underway on my Gancia ...
Rdv on the BOATS chapter of www.rcsaga.com !

Bye

[Andrewg]

POPOP - I had a look at the Gancia de Gancia

this should be running better - which prop are you using

Andrew

[Tcabbage]

Popop-

I checked out your web site. Very cool. Regarding the Gancia, do you have the motor AND the batteries all positioned in the forward compartment? Seems to me this would throw the CG way off. I am in the process of converting my Super Hawaii to a 700 and, like you, I am mounting the motor forward. But I'll have to put at least one battery pack in the rear compartment to acheive the stock CG.

I noticed Jeff mounted his motor in the rear compartment...maybe this is why.

[popop]

Tx a lot for your dedication !

I just added 10more other pics on the Gancia page ... which now became a 3 pages review !

I tested the boat this afternoon for the first time directly on the Seine and I'm very surprised by its potential !

I kept the weight as minimal (to give it a chance) so used the 700Neo with 12x1700RC and my brave reliable Schulze : 2080g RTR w/o canopy ...
CoG was about 31% : I planned to reach as possible the setup given by a nice racer here on RRR : Tx to him ! I found the boat handling quite the same than when nitro powered ...

I bought some drive-dog props yesterday and chose the X442 for today test.
I'm happy with it : The Neo seemed to reach RPM and the lack of water-cooling didn't hurt it ... Hot but not too much ... The batts stayed cool ... Kind sign of "waiting for faster !!"

YES guys, now I'm ready to spent some effort for this hull !

I'm still amazed by the way such a large boat can go with an affordable 12cells motorization ...

Chances are I keep the motor fore position but the new shaft (bought also yesterday) will have a mid-position bearing.

Also, I must smooth the hull vibration !
Some silicon between the 2 shells under the engine mount and probably some expansive foam (a few ! I know the way it grows ...) for the prow chamber ... I really need to stop the "Gaffophone"* effect of the Gancia hull ...

First of all, I'll probably test the genuine Z-drive along with an enlarged axle (Perhaps 5mm) and bearings on the plastic parts. According to me, that's the first reason of noise and waste !
http://rcsaga.com/jeu.gif


* : Excuse the french name of the huge catastrophic Gaston Lagaffe musical object for the ones who know ... Even the people in the restaurant of the other side heard it !
:p

[Jeff Wohlt]

Just wanted to report that I ran my Sh with the 700 8.4 again today with a 645 on it and it screams. I'm amazed how little is in the water with that stepped hull and is still fairly stable...except corners.

Run time with 2400 is amazing. The little work to put the 700 in was nothing compared to results I'm getting. I will throw the NEO in it to compare but I am very happy with the 8.4.

Motor, motor mount and a 5mmx4mm Graupner flex connector is all it took.

[popop]

OK Jeff
Just please indicate your weight and CoG for my understanding ...
Tx !

(30% = 0.30 x 93cm from the rear)

[Jeff Wohlt]

It is strange because in the stock Sh the CG is pretty far up and still rides high in the front. My strut is also more level or down than up.

I also have the drive unit that has some slop in it. I will probably drill out the plstic in the drive and put some brass bushings in it to fit the pivot shaft which shoudl stop the wear on the plastic which then gets sloppy.

I would guess the CG is around 35-40 percent from the rear. A little more weight from the 700 in the rear probably helps.

I can measure it forsure but this is about right. I left them in the stock location on the SH. I do use the one under the radio tray and then one across so it looks like a T.

[popop]

Pretty curious that you could have a CoG more fore than me ... I'll measure again the distance from the rear ...

Concerning the Drive, you far more better explained than me what I expected to do on mine ...
Yes, I'll drill also the plastic part to place some bushings (not bearings here !) ... I just hope to find this week some hard metal tube to do this ... I got some Aluminium tube with an interseting inside diam but it's poor ...

[Jeff Wohlt]

I would try and use brass...not aluminum...too soft and the same will happen over time. Not sure what the shaft size is but try and find some brass tubing for the bushing and CA them in. Wonder about running a brass tube as the shaft and making it a water pick up? It is rather high on that boat so it may not work as well.

[eddieh]

Jeff, nice mods, I have an old cesa sitting around, got it from a friend who lost interest,,, the original drive train was butchered, and I have it sittin on a shelf waiting for that phoenix thing to happen ,,,,, just a thought, has anybody ran twin drives on a cesa??????? similar to the old graupner arrow, or porto fino??? not just two motors, but two complete drives???? I mean there's lots of room in there,,,,, I was wondering how you liked that ball and cup, connection on the drive? I have an old steerable outdrive from Graupner, it ran a 700, and then went with a flex shaft all the way out to the stub shaft,, worked pretty good,,,, and definately better then there old universal system,,,, anyway,, got a get that boat off the shelf,,, add it to one of the many other, gotta get that done, pile,,,, thanks for the info,,,,

[popop]

Yes Jeff I'm looking for some brass tube as my r/c car experience drove me to ... The brass is also "self-lubricated" and maintenance-free ...

Unfortunately I didn't found anyone (5mm Outside / 4mm inside) in the workshop of my club today and only found some brass bushings from unused ones of my Cars kits this evening ...

I also disasemblied the joint this evening and analysed the gap : It's about 0.3-0.4mm on the bottom hole !

I also found some vynil adhesive I completely forgot : It prevented some displacement in fore direction ...!
Sure, the pb is old !!
As far as I can remember now, it occured on the 1st Nitro season ... 10 years ago now ...

[Jeff Wohlt]

They also made one with FOUR motors and twin drives.

I think this was more for looks and to be able to say it has "twin drives" and not really care about function. Steering and handling probably is bad. These were design to play with ...not race.

These hulls have too much flex to be really fast and handle... Sure is a fun boat to play with and play in big water.

[eddieh]

well, I have never run this one, but got it cheaper then dirt,,,, but it's just a shell, anyway, thx for the input, might try that 700 install, but then it's sort of a large e-vee,,,, how does the hull flex as compared to the e-vee??????? anyway I just finished the last of the rather large and heated discussions over the whole b/l brush motor thing, you had some good points,(as did everyone else,,,,, (let's not go there people!!!!!) I like where your coming from, thx for the feedback

[Jeff Wohlt]

Thanks, I don't know about the EV but probably a bit heavier hull than the SH but also has no steps in it.

Let me know if I can help or send you any pics of what I did..nothing very hard and great results.

[AndyKunz]

I think the Cesa (at least the one I had) was NOT stepped.

The SH I have _is_.

The Cesa ran much better in Michigan than the SH.

Andy

[MikDee]

Jeff, Please let me know what you find different between running the 700 8.4 bb motor, & the 700 Neo in your SH,,, thanks, Mike

[eddieh]

Thanx in advance for the offer of help, I still have a few projects in the "Boat yard" to clear off before I tackle this one,,, going to the wram show over the weekend, i'll see what kind of goodies I can pick up, cheers ed

[Mathieu]

Originally posted by AndyKunz
I think the Cesa (at least the one I had) was NOT stepped.

The SH I have _is_.

The Cesa ran much better in Michigan than the SH.

Andy

Andy,

You're right, the CESA is not stepped.
At least "one version" of the SH has stepped hull. Don't know about the Gancia, but I think it's not a stepped hull.

The CESA was "better" than the SH ? Top speed, handling ?
Is a stepped hull not better than a "normal" one ?

[eddieh]

Hello All, My Cesa isn't stepped, it's like a big brother of the old baltek 33,,,,, anyway, will see what can be done with this beast,,, cheers ed

[eddieh]

hey guys, by the way I posted a few picks of my electrovee in the gallery, now if I can get my cesa runnin like this, in flat water I'd be happy,,,,, I've seen mathieu's moon launch pics like them too...cheers guys

[AndyKunz]

Originally posted by Mathieu
The CESA was "better" than the SH ? Top speed, handling ?
Is a stepped hull not better than a "normal" one ?

The one in question was still running the original motors (5+ years old or so!) and older 1700's. His boat turned MUCH better w/o turn fins than my SH (stepped) did with the tiny Fines Design ones. Top end was very nearly the same (his was a little faster) but he could really turn so much better.

They blew a gear in one heat, and I blew a motor, so we moved my gearbox (with bearings vs their old with bushings) into his hull. It absolutely flew then - unfortunately about as well as your video ;) We also put some good 2000's in his boat for that run.

I think the ABC "stock" motors were actually a few turns less than 27T. Mine had P2K stock motors.

I think we got some video. It would have been P Offshore from the 2001 Michigan Cup if anybody else has it.

Andy

[Jeff Wohlt]

Stock are RS 550 SH motors and are 22T Single wind. Mabuchi motors.

[Mathieu]

Jeff,

Can you send me a pic of the stock motors cause I think mine are not the same as you got. Mine are bigger than those showed on the pics on the box. The stock ones I've looks like some Graupner 600.

Thanks

[AndyKunz]

Graupner 600 is 550 Mabuchi.

Andy

[eddieh]

mATHIEU, i AM NOT SURE OF THE BONE STOCK MOTOR, BUT MY CESA HAD ONE OF THE ORIGINAL MOTORS LEFT, IT HAD M & Y 700 ST ON IT,,, LISTED AS A "TUNE-UP MOTOR" IT WAS 540 SIZE,,,,, CHEERS ED

[Mathieu]

Andy,

Thanks.

Eddieh,

Thanks, on the box there's : M & T 700 RST ???
Checking the site of Mabuchi to get some infos.

[popop]

Gancia hull is the same than Cesa : the 2 boats appeared in the same time on the market. Perhaps during 1990-1991. I bought mine during 1992 ...
The Super Hawai (SH) is more recent and has a more deep hull and a step on it ...

Note that the Gancia for example slightly changed during the years ... see www.abchobby.com to see the current inside layout ...

Concerning the stock motors, ABC Hobby distributed in the 1988-1992 years the M&Y line with among them the 700RST winding ...
Cheap but packaged with value ....
700 refered to the typical duration in seconds ...

[Mathieu]

My motors are still ok, but after I'll made my hydro, I'll certainly modify the trans using 2 motors on direct drive : maybe 2 "600" or 2 "700", I'm not fixed now.

[popop]

These is the mod ...
http://rcsaga.com/z300.jpg

The bushings come from unused Graupner shaft tubes so the 6mm outside diam ...
Just hoping it could help someone else ...

Bye

[MikeC]

Hey popop,What kind of camera are you taking those pics with? They look really good compared to my digital camera.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Nice job. I used a 3/16" piece of K&S that fits the full length of the drive and drilled out the drive plastic and slid it in. The shaft fits nicely with the stainless pin and c-clips.

I really think this could make a difference. The prop torque wants to pull the prop to the side all the time so this could help some chattering I hear in turns...mine was not just back and forth but side to side and that is not good for wear on the coupler at the prop.

Thanks...hope your runs as good as mine!

[popop]

I also haved side wear but less than straightforward ... I feel my first Z-drive setups were quite bad and hurted the joint quickly ...
The metal ball joint is also used ...

Furthermore, clearly the noise isn't the same on left corners and right corners ... So my invest in an Hydro Antrieb III from Graupner for 33Euros : I think my hull vibration needs to be lowered and a Z-drive wear is systematically dramatic with such a hull lenght ...

Mike, concerning the cam it's a brave Epson3000Z always used on a tripod and without flash ...
I never use the tiff format and prefer to use a mean 400Kb jpg format which I lower to 300pix large ... Always on jpg ...

I bought it after have readen some reviews at megapixel.net ...

A friend of mine owns a Fuji 6900 which proved to be far superior especially for motion pictures : for example the Key West pict on my Boat chapter
... The following Viper pix or the Sonia page ones are what we actually do at best with mine ...

And I love my easy and no-maintenance cam !!