Vacuum Form Machine

[Jr Branham]

Hey Gang,
There have been a few post on vacuum forming lately. Here is a few pics of the machine I started building and never completed. It has forming capabilities of 2 feet wide by 3 feet long. There are over 700 holes drilled in the top platen (forming surface)....I know, I drilled them all by hand....LOL.
Jr. Branham

[Jr Branham]

one more

[FrankW]

That's off those "protoform" plans, right? You say that you never completed it... If you would like to sell it, how much would you like for it?

-Frank

[Dan Chase]

Wow, that's a nice looking machine, Jr. You need to finish it!

BTW: How do you keep your shop so clean???

[Jr Branham]

Yes Frank,
It is off the protofrom that Doug Walsh designed. He claims it will out perform many factory made machines. I built it exactly as the plans stated, no deviations. I mig welded the frame work, the box is made of solid oak, and the oven (not yet finished) was made by a machine shop out of stainless steel.
Dan, I actually need to tidy up my shop...lol
Jr. B

[FrankW]

Looks great. I need to start forming with my little vacuum former more often. But I've been lazy. Hey, maybe I'll do a micro-canard out of ABS.

-Frank

[Zippifried]

VERY NICE WORK!!!

Clean looking machine!! DEFINATELY a "FINISH ME ASAP" project!!!

It looks VERY sharp.. Nice and neat...

Could you give us a little overview on its construction? Of course, I want to know!!! LOL Any idea on how much you've got in it (time / money) so far?

This one CAN'T go unfinished!!! :)

Heck, these machines have MANY MANY uses, it's all up to the imagination... Though, of course, hulls are a focus... :)

In all, I think with the potential advent of more enthusiasts creating new designs, the hobby could get a SERIOUS kick... I'm ultra-keen on vacuforming hulls- it's one of the least expensive methods for reproduction. NOW, if / when my means gains some success, phase two would be in hull prototyping- building a tool I've wanted since college: a CNC milling machine (one that doesn't cost $20g's).

Imagine, being able to sketch a design out in CAD, click a "go" button to route it from a wood or foam block to be cast, finished, and finalized in plaster, then vacuformed in quantity. THAT is a HECK of a fast and nearly effortless process!

I've been pondering testing methods for hull designs (such as a cyclic waterflow system, or even something like what I saw on TLC tonight, a body of water (tank / trough) a hull is moved through that tests its resistance).

THIS is what I'm liking about the whole FE hobby, the ability to create and experiment, with tons of variables and options.

Being I'm a programmer (and formerly an electronics engineer {assistant, though, you know the story, the boss always gets the credit! LOL} designing inclined orbit satellite tracking systems), I've got quite a background to do everything from interface boards to motor control circuitry, to the GUI to run it all via a PC. Add my database experience, and presto, data analysis and collection comes into play. You know, I think I was MADE for FE's.... hahaha

My apologies for rambling, and to those that favor a less "technical" approach (you wood guys know who I'm talking about! LOL).... the pictures you posted where inspiring... :)

Thanks!
Paul

[RiverRunner]

Nice work and nice shop area!

When the kids are gone, we definitely won't need a smaller house. I'll reclaim some of the space for my stuff. :)

[AndyKunz]

Originally posted by RiverRunner
When the kids are gone, we definitely won't need a smaller house. I'll reclaim some of the space for my stuff. :)

One down, 6 to go.

Only 14 years and 3 weeks to go here....

And if we can start her in school a little early like we did with the others...

Hmmmmm

;)

Andy

[J Tracey]

Does anyone have any plans for a vacuume forming machine?
Does anyone know where plans can be purchased?

[T.S.Davis]

Andy,

I feel your pain. My 2 are 9 years appart. What was I thinking!

Zipp,

Get busy with that CNC gigg. I've spent about 10 hours so far converting my cad drawing to solid. Had the bottom finished and cut half off and replaced it because it wasn't good enough (my opinion). It takes for ever.

Jr.

Does the heating element heat from one side of the plastic and you just watch for acceptable sag? I read Dougs book too. Turns out he's about a 1/2 hour from me. Nice guy. Don't the plans for this machine estimate $1500 cost? Doug would probably be upset if you gave away the farm on his design on this board. Isn't it copywritten or somthing?

Terry

[AndyKunz]

Originally posted by T.S.Davis
I feel your pain. My 2 are 9 years appart. What was I thinking!


I was trying to be funny - guess it didn't look that way.

I wouldn't trade this time for anything! We'd have more if I was the only one involved in the decision.

Andy

[T.S.Davis]

Sorry Andy,

I was trying to be funny too. I guess we just miss things on this board without the body language. I should have said I feel your pain.LOL I love my kids too (no chuckles).

Terry

[Jr Branham]

Paul,
The machine is based around a metal frame that I mig welded out of square tubing. It sits on a wooden frame with casters. This design is very different than Doug explains in his book. It has two big tanks which are the reservoirs for holding the vacuum, you can see the valve in the front of the machine. Tha platen is the part that took me awhile to construct. It is a sheet of aluminum with a gazillion (is that a word) holes drilled in top surface. There is a linkage that raises and lowers the plastic up to the oven- which sits overhead.
The plans are available over the net, do a search for "protoform"
they are a little expensive....$125.00, but, are real nice, he gives drawings and blueprints and some great photographs. I probably got 350.00 to 400.00 in parts, then many many hours of labor, cutting, welding , scratching my head...lol.
Jr.

[Jeff Wohlt]

700 Holes! Why not use peg board with a frame under it?

The tanks are very cool...talk about some fast and heavy pull...that will do it.

[T.S.Davis]

Jr.

I know you didn't finish it yet but did you ever test to see how many inches of mercury you can pull? Looks like you went with the vacuum pump.

I just found it in Doug's book. He estimates around $1300 to build a 24x36 machine. That must be retail prices. The heating source has to be the most complicated and expensive part.

Terry

[Zippifried]

Hey Guys!

Terry, if the machine designs in question are patented, I believe you can build anything from any patent for personal use without getting sued. If you build the patented product for sale, that's a sueable issue. The part I'm unsure of is, if you build a patented design to facilitate production without actually SELLING the patented design, are you in the clear? I'd hazard a guess at Yes, as you're not selling the intellectual accomplishments established in the patent. I'm pretty sure xerox'ing the design drawings would be a copyright issue, as the plans are sold with a high level of specificity. I don't think discussing the basic construction is really a problem... :)

About the CNC machine: I like the milling machine in the micro-mark catalog- I don't think it'd be very hard to convert it to CNC- add some stepper motors, and a motor drive circuit, plug it into a computer, and write some software.. The catch is, I think the footprint is a bit small for what I'd like to see (can't remember the specs, though, it might be possible to do things in "squares", repositioning to complete each quarter of the design).

Heck, a simple lead screw rig (not cyclic bearings, half thou's of tollerance, nothing that pricey), XYZ, with just enough capacity to move the work or the tool, with mildly accurate positioning COULD do the trick.. I mean, if it's a few thousandths off here and there, for this application, I don't think it'd matter much. Hmm... I haven't thought about "light weight" CNC work before.. This might be cheaper and easier than I thought... How much does a block of foam weigh? hahahaha Heck, I've got parts lying around for all but the mechanics of one (I have the steppers, electronic components, etc...). Ok, I'm thinking now!!!

Jr,

Thanks for the info! I can only imagine how much time you have in it thus far!! If you decide to resume construction on it, keep us posted!

I, too, am curious at the neg PSI's this thing'd do.... :)

Take Care!
Paul

[FrankW]

Originally posted by Zippifried
I, too, am curious at the neg PSI's this thing'd do.... :)

Take Care!
Paul

Suction isn't measured in PSI, it's pretty much in mercury-millimeters, Hgmm. I'm betting it's in the 25 range (30 being the maximum that can be sucked). But I may be a bit rusty on all of this.

-Frank

[AndyKunz]

Neg PSI, eh Paul? You been watching too much Star Trek!

But they did find something recently that might make intergalactic travel more reasonable - E=mc^2 isn't a constant. There was a writeup on cnn.com the other day, and I think the BBC Science site covered it well (much better, actually).

Andy

[FrankW]

Originally posted by AndyKunz
But they did find something recently that might make intergalactic travel more reasonable - E=mc^2 isn't a constant.

Andy

I believe that's been known for a few years... just not widely known.

-Frank

[Zippifried]

Ok, smack me... hahaha

BUT, isn't there an "equivalent" to what the PSI's would be, expressed negatively? (yeah, I know that air weighs down on us from gravity, so the "neg" couldn't be but so neg... haha)

Just reaching.... hahahaha... I never said I was a physics wiz on the whole... ;)

Hey Andy, how'd 'ya know I still catch Star Trek episodes? LOL

Take Care,
Paul

[T.S.Davis]

Suction is usually described in inches of Mercury (In.Hg.) or inches of water. In otherwords, 1 inch of Mercury suction is the amount of vacuum required to lift a column of mercury 1 inch. My six horse shop vac only sucks about 3.5 inches of mercury. Your average vacuum pump will pull about 27 In.Hg. but with no volume. That's where the tanks come in. Vac the tanks then your all set. Cool stuff.

Terry

[Jr Branham]

Terry,
You are right, a perfect vacuum would be 30 inches, but that is not practical in the "real world" most vacuum pumps pull down to the 27 or 28 inch range. And your shop vac has more FLOW than actual vacuum. 27 or 28 inches of vacuum is quite a force, that is where the sturdiness of the molds come into play.
Jeff, I did use a pegboard to get all my holes lined up. I turned a piece of aluminum on my lathe with a sharp point on the end, made a mark through the pegboard where all my holes would be, then drilled them out with a 1/16th bit.
Without stepping on Doug Walsh's toes, (it's his design) the problem with the pegboard and big box vacuum form machines, is that it takes too much vacuum to remove the air in all the dead spaces, that is wasted vacuum, you want the vacuum to start doing the work(forming plastic) right away, there is no dead space in this machine, when the valve is opened, all that has to be evacuated is the hoses and then the plastic gets hit. And yes, there is alot of volume in those tanks, so volume is there and so is the deep vacuum.
Jr.

[T.S.Davis]

Jr.

How come you didn't go with the single hole in the center with a screen setup? Thats what I did with my little cheeseball setup. It works but I'm limited to 12x24 area. Okay for small stuff.

Terry

[T.S.Davis]

Guys,

For somebody with som serius juice and a lot of forming to do check this out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758988548

I checked and you need 3 phase power to run it.

Terry