Smoked my GP S-600

[aqua man]

I don't know what I did wrong. It goes like this. I bought a Kyosho Air Streak for a recovery boat. I had one before and it was a good boat for what it was. I decided to put a Great Planes S-600 in place of the stock motor. I made a micro switch speed control. Charged up my best 3000 pack and headed out for the maiden voyage. it ran as expected but after 5 min. or so the speed dropped off quit a bit. I knew the battery had plenty of time left so I brought it to the dock. I opened the hatch and a terrible smell and smoke came out. The battery was not even warm but the motor was really hot and black inside!! What gives?? I thought this was a mild motor suitible for stock replacment. glad it only cost 15.00 I guess you get what you pay for.

[Andrewg]

it wasnt the stock motor. Did it have a label saying you should use it in your boat?

If you take a little responsibility for checking specs and repropping watercooling runin checking heat etc (all the standard stuff) it might be your benefit next time you choose a motor.....

[RcSurfRider]

The s-600 is generally as really tough motor. I use one a lot on 7 cells works great! But I run brush coolers and can coolers on ALL my motors. What cooling did you use? Did you break it in? Also on first run of a motor I always run it for minute bring it in check the heat and go from there adding a minute at a time until the bat dumps. Maybe a dud motor or myabe not. I use one soemtimes in my rc surfer with a Y534 prop and I can run a 7 cell 3000 though it nonstop till the bat dumps with no problems. That's using brush coolers and coil.
Erik:)

[aqua man]

What are you the motor police??? A 19 turn 550 can with a wopping 3 degrees timing and 19,000 rpm with no load is as mild as it gets. (correct me if those are not the specs) I could see if it the motor said 25,000, a smaller prop might be in order.
Does any motor said "this is for boat use" on the label? let me know cause I havn't seen one yet. Water cooling was working
fine, there was a steady stream from the water outlet. If you don't have a pertinant responce please don't reply.

[aqua man]

RcSurfRider

I broke it in with a 4 cell pack, everything seemed normal, maybe it was a dud motor. I gonna try a monster maxx wild 19turn or reedy badd maxx 19t next.

[Andrewg]

a 19t isnt the mildest motor around it had a 27 turn in it stock.

see your problem yet?

smaller prop is required to reduce amp flow (ie you overloaded the motor)

get a metal prop like an X438

water cooling on the brushes is required to ensure relaibility

and your attitude.. can't do anything relevant - its up to you LMAO!!!!

[MikDee]

Just sounds like your water cooling wasn't working this time,,, u coulda picked up a plastic bag, fishing line, or debri

[eddieh]

Coulda been a dud... I was bench testing an s-600, and it threw a wire on the arm, and I have used one with good results on 6 cells, I am not sure of the size of the prop on the kyosho, but would think that someting in the 435-440 range would be ok, talk to larry benson who has used this motor in a few projects with really good reslutls,, cheers eddie

[RcSurfRider]

Hello Pot? It's the kettle calling.
You're black......

[eddieh]

DUDE!! that was funny!!!!:D

[aqua man]

Like I said before 19,000 no load rpm is very very mild. it does'nt matter what the turn is. Following your logic a 27 turn Green Machine rated at 28,000 no load rpm is milder than a 19 turn s-600 rated at 19,000 rpm just because it has more turns. I think not. Maybe you could explain that one to me. There are other factors like timing and armature design that decide what kind of motor you end up with. Not just turns. A Chameleon 2 pro has a 30,000 no load rpm. Its a 19 turn also, gee I wonder why? Are you seeing what I'm getting at?

I've talked to Larry before and he's helped me out alot, you on the other hand are just irritating me and seem quite un-educated.
Please don't offer me any more bogus, ill-informed advice.

I come here to share what I find with boats and stuff with other people with like interests, not to get into a slam contest. Its not very hard to cut somebody down over the internet, whats the chance you'll ever meet me? grow up my friend.

[RcSurfRider]

.

[aqua man]

no surfer, I was refering to Andrewg

[Andrewg]

Aqua

I recommended a prop Ocxtura X438 and water cooling (motor terminals are the priority then can) ...specific and to the point.

Ignore it – no skin off my nose

Here is why your motor burnt out

19000 rpm is not mild. Thats just ajudgement based on your knowledge of motors.

The variable which is important is how the 600 compares to the standard 27 turn motor (which is not a stock ROAR stock motor like the GM/P2K – the criteria for those are available in setup tips on my site).

Design and materials make the difference. The stock 27 turn is a very basic motor with its origins DC power tools. It has much lower rpm and much lower outputs and significantly lower efficiency. Try peak efficiency of 56% vs 68% for a good ROAR 27 turn

Like the standard Kyosho motor the 600 is a power tool motor. It is a hotter wind than the standard motor but uses the same type of brush gear.

Like the standard motor it has low efficiency which means it has high heat output. It is not capable of absorbing more than about 20 amps continuous even when ventilated very well. (it is mild copmapred top a ROAR Motor but it is hot comapred to the standard motor)

So the motor is hotter in terms of rpm and waste heat. Heat proportional to current flow. More current more heat.

Current flow is related to loading. An electric motor can be loaded till it stalls at which time it will draw the maximum or stall currrent.

By putting the 600 into a drive system designed for slower revving motor you increase theload onthe prop which translates to more current drawn by the motor. ie more heat => damage

You need a smaller prop/different balde shape and better cooling. X438/ X440 and water cooled motor terminals and can.

When you go to a different electric motor you need to know how it performs in relation to the one you are replacing so that you can gear or prop it to run at or near is maximum efficiency (coolest) rather than in an inefficient way which will damage it

Technology has no agenda - but you and I do - so when you find yourself getting angry at the equipment ask yourself do you understand it. If the answer is no you haven’t eliminated the possibility it was your error.

The 19 turn long can truck motors should work with the stock setup. Two reasons different motors with way more power and much better efficiency – unlike the lower power 600 they are capable of turning the stock prop at higher more efficient rpm. However brush & comm. damage is likely

About 5 years ago I used one of these in a mono a little larger than yours with an X435. Newer motrs have stornger (more torque and better efficiency at higher current levels) magnets and end bells – try a y536/X438 with them .

That was before I started building my own motors which now hold the N2 mono race record.

For a retrieval boat a submerged drive boat like a zig zag racer will be as useful probably more because of the fittings on it which push a boat better

GFYB

[aqua man]

Thank you, that was truely the most useful info on the subject I have ever have the pleasure to read. Sorry I got alittle salty with you.

[J Tracey]

Darin,
I have just read the post, and in my opinion you hit the problem on the head in your original post. A (new???) 600 motor for only $15.00. This is either a motor that was never meant to take that kind of a load, or it was just a bad motor. Later on you said that you broke it in on 4 cells,so I take it, it was a new motor. The question to ask is "What was it designed to do?"
If Andrew has something to say I for one would take note.

[Larry Benson]

hi Darin, I have to agree with J Tracey and others, it must have been a bad motor, I put the ones I have to the limit and so far none have ever failed (yet) I run one on 7 cells and one on 8 cells and though at the end of the run they are hot they keep on going. I use coil cooling on them and plan on adding brush cooling next time I'm in the mood to work on them. Even though you may get a bad one once in a while I still sat they are a lot of fun for the investment............later................. Larry

[Andrewg]

Woo up guys cheap motors are great used appropriately

are you using a 42mm diam prop to push 2+lb monos with your 600s?

Without water cooling an overloaded motor can take a dive very quickly

[Speed]

The roar stock motors from trinity and reedy have 24 degrees of timing, vented can for more rpm and split armatures to further increase the rev. Furthermore the 600 can is longer with a solid armature to increase torque and a little bit of timing.

[aqua man]

I want to try brush cooling but it looks hard to do "cleanly''
I guess I could practice on some junk motors first. The way I run stuff I should have a steady supply.